In comparison, the phalanx was the primary fighting formation for Hellenistic soldiers. Alexander’s core unit in the phalanx was the syntagma, normally 16 men deep. testudo turns off. Very similarly to how phalanx formation works. Additionally, it would be nice if my spearmen could form a Phalanx and deal some heavier damage to charging cavalry. Please leave a comment below to express your opinions. I thought you could just post the topics out of all the games listed. Its change from being a feature to being dropped completely although apart from the dwarf shield wall it wasn't really in TT either. Roman infantry tactics refers to the theoretical and historical deployment, formation, and manoeuvres of the Roman infantry from the start of the Roman Republic to the fall of the Western Roman Empire.. How has it changed? Essentially, the testudo was a specific sort of formation to deal with a specific sort of threat. Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. I thought you could just post the, Panzerkeil of course! I urge military history buffs to focus on learning about wars that actually have been fought and from which we can learn general principles of war. The resulting appearance is very like that of a roof,41 affords a striking spectacle, and is the most effective of protections against arrows, which glide off from it, http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Plutarch/Lives/Antony*.html. Creative Assembly, the Creative 2) How has it changed from classic "Total War" games to the more modern ones? Answers must be in-depth and comprehensive, or they will be removed. Not as good as your left hand/arm perhaps but well enough to 'get by'. The only weakness i see in the phalanx is the vulnerability to archers. The focus below is primarily on Roman tactics – the "how" of their approach to battle, and how it stacked up against a variety of opponents over time. MK7GTI2016. This involved the soldiers standing side by side in ranks. The Portal for Public History The testudo was great for defending a position or slowly advancing while under missile fire, but it wasn’t the easiest thing to actually pull off. Fans of the film Gladiator can’t forget the arena scene of the reenactment of the Scypio Africanus vs. Hannibal battle. 148/160 Praetorians Guards(RUNNING) vs. Slingers (4 Volleys out of 25 Possible cause of Ammo) Running is 3X Faster than walking and 5X Faster than Testudo; Making Walking 75% Faster than Testudo If Walking is 1.00 Speed, Testudo is 0.57 speed and Charging 3.00 … Zergle, i completely agree with you. Also the magic pikes for pikemen are still not fixed yet and they shall be able … My question was really what's the difference between the formations themselves. You would be amazed how well you can train the 'other side of your body' if you persist long enough. Warhammer, the Warhammer logo, GW, Games Some descriptions of the testudo discriminate betw… Cookies help us deliver our Services. The soldiers in front and sides interlocked their shields. Why would you fight the enemy in melee combat whilst holding shields above your heads? For more information please read our FAQ’s here. Just before contact with the enemy, the soldiers moved in very close together so that each man's shield helped to protect the man on his left. The Roman Testudo (tortoise) formation is probably the most recognisable battle formation in history. rights reserved. Workshop, The Game of Fantasy Battles, the twin-tailed comet logo, and all associated What I'd like to know is looking at the two formations side by side, how do they appear different? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskHistorians community. The tactic springs from ancient Greek warfare which relied on the Phalanx formation to slowly chew up the enemy. Their uniquely large scuta, as the Romans’ shields were called, allowed them to present a 360-degree wall of wood to opponents. Testudo formation would help with that. Certainly Dio's description fits well that of a phalanx … The last great example of maniple and phalanx battle is found at the battle of Pydna during the third Macedonian war between Rome and Perseus. You train your right arm/hand to fight effectively. In a hypothetical battle between the Romans and a phalanx-using Hellenistic army (or one of the real battles between Rome and the Hellenistic successor states, like Pydna or Magnesia) , Roman soldiers would not have been arranged in the testudo formation in order to fight the enemy phalanx. This formation is called the "Testudo," or tortoise in Latin. - Harlan Ellison, "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." Please read the rules before participating, as we remove all comments which break the rules. The second rank held their shields out over the heads of the first, and the next rank likewise. A phalanx is simply the Greek word for "shield wall" and the formations are indistinguishable from the shield walls of other cultures that used similar equipment (e.g. Fighting a 2-front war, with a phalanx ain't a good thing. Sep 19, 2013 @ 12:55am I agree, I never bother to use it. In comparison, the phalanx was the primary fighting formation for Hellenistic soldiers. trade marks of The Creative Assembly Limited. All Sorry didnt know that the fourm had different sections. In the testudo formation, the men would align their shields to form a packed formation covered with shields on the front and top. It would be nice to have some staying power for my skeletons (or even a reason to use them past turn 20). The decisive battle happened on flat ground not too far from the site of Thermopylae. In many ways as their Phalanx counterparts, the testudo was a formation entirely dependent on their cohesion and command yet no so much susceptible to attacks from above and the flanks from artillery fire. - Hubert H. Humphrey, "Never argue with an idiot. To me they seem nearly identical. Phalanx??? Phalanx fighting on a black-figure amphora, c. 560 BC. Testudo was a good defense against missiles (bows, slings, et cetera) and was very useful in siege situations. registered trade marks or trade marks of SEGA Holdings Co., Ltd. or its affiliates. Also if there is little difference, would not Phalanx be innefficient like Testudo for engaging in melee combat? They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain. its allways the answer, cause I like Panzers and Keile, "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." We wanted to do this legendary sight on the battlefield justice and so we have included an EXCLUSIVE Centurion model leading from the front of the formation and also added a pack of metal arrows that you can stick to the shields and the base to show how effective the Testudo is in … # totalwarrome #totalromearena #totalwarrome2. The scutum (English: / ˈ s k uː t əm / SKOO-təm, Classical Latin: [ˈskuːtũː]; plural scuta) was a type of shield used among Italic peoples in antiquity, and then by the army of ancient Rome starting about the fourth century BC. The phalanx was an offensive formation designed to charge the … use their shields to cover the top and sometimes sides of their formation as well as the front. It was not the primary fighting formation of the Roman soldiers. Phalanx vs. Testudo 1) which one do you guys prefer and why? The opposite of relentless Weapon Masters, Holy Sabers concentrate on protecting their allies. ... For example the Roman testudo moved on the battlefield. I was thinking of buying Myrmidons, Thorakitia & Dactyl fireteams with Hector, Thrasymedes, Machaon & Acmon. In the early days of the Roman Republic, military tactics were influenced by the methods used by the successful Greek Army. Sorry didnt know that the fourm had different sections. I'd love to use it more often, but it's pointless. The basic Greek formation was made more flexible by Philip II of Macedon and his son, Alexander III the Great. Press J to jump to the feed. It’s easy to see where the “tortoise” formation got its name. The combat formation used by the Greeks and Romans was called the phalanx. Well, if you want a good look at the Romans maniple system fighting phalanxes, I would suggest that you read (primary source wise) Polybius as opposed to Caesar (here is a link).Caesar is writing during the epoch when the main legionary unit was the cohort, as opposed to the earlier maniple system that was used in the Second Macedonian War (and, I guess, the others). Essentially, the testudo was a specific sort of formation to deal with a specific sort of threat. "Testudo" refers to a very specific form of formation wherein Roman legionaries would form a compact block and use their shields to cover the top and sometimes sides of their formation as well as the front. The testudo is a purely defensive formation. It's simply too unwieldy of a formation. The men in the back ranks would place their shields over their heads to protect the formation from above, balancing the shiel… The horse archers shot them to pieces, and every time the Romans would go into a testudo to protect themselves from arrows, the cataphracts would charge them, then when they left the testudo to fight the cataphracts, the Parthians would retreat and the horse archers would shoot them again. But ranged units in this game can really hurt, especially during a siege. © Copyright Games Workshop Limited 2015. Developed by Creative Assembly and published by SEGA. I understand the emphasis each group placed on the formations. I dont even have time for that mess... < > Showing 1-15 of 28 comments . Workshop Limited, variably registered around the world, and used under licence. Rven with the improved weapons designed for cavalry charges (Asian nomads used cavalry … Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Since I'm new to the ways of Aleph I was wondering what unit boxes & blister packs I should buy? Can you tell me how i remove this discussion? The casualties from missile fire vs testudo are horrendous...much better to charge. The testudo is a purely defensive formation. Im new here and didnt know that. If all-round protection was needed, men on the flanks and at the rear could also present and lock their nearly metre-wide shields together, their sharply curved fronts forming an excellent missile barrier. There were multiple different fighting formations used by pre-Marian and post-Marian Roman infantry - most of which did not involve holding their shields above their heads. Because this is the Warhammer part of the Forum. Another issue with atk. The formation of a shield wall (scieldweall or bordweall in Old English, skjaldborg in Old Norse) is a military tactic that was common in many cultures in the Pre-Early Modern warfare age. Because this is the Warhammer part of the Forum.Put this in the Atilla or Arena discussion.Then again the fact you think this should be here, means its pointless to tell you to move this to the correct forum. The roman victory in the battle of Cynoscephalae ( 197 BC ) marked the end of the second macedonian war between Rome and Philip V, king of Macedon. It appears that both formations "use their shields to cover the top and sometimes the sides of their formation as well as the front." Don't even vaguely overlap Cavalry Testudo: Doesn't even activate, broken Pike Phalanx: Not bad (generally works, at least), but still pretty spaced out. I've been thinking of buying some conversion bits and Steel Phalanx units to bring a sci-fi Roman Testudo to life on the tabletop. I'd love to know the differences. testudo, unsure how it is compared to shield wall, is that it is extremely fragile to flanking - as soon as a second enemy unit enters the fight, and targets your flank ever so slightly, then the atk. Assembly logo, Total War and the Total War logo are either registered trade marks or Maximus, a former general played by Russell Crowe, turned what was supposed to be a sure defeat into a victory by using a traditional Roman army defense: the Testudo, or Tortoise. characters, and the distinctive likeness thereof, are either ® or ™, and/or © Games Oh well, ignorance is bliss i guess... No need for name calling. SEGA and the SEGA logo are either logos, illustrations, images, names, creatures, races, vehicles, locations, weapons, Roman soldiers would not actually remain in testudo formation whilst fighting against the enemy in melee combat. The Romans adopted it when they switched from the military formation of the hoplite phalanx of the Greeks to the formation with maniples. Hmmm, I love a good Phalanx but I'll have a Testudo with extra mayo plz. The shields would be held in such a way that they presented a shield wall to all sides. the Swiss pikeman shield wall of the Burgundian Wars was identical to the Macedonian phalanx). Then the shield-bearers wheeled about, enclosing the lighter armed troops within their ranks, while they themselves dropped on one knee and held their shields out before them. Certainly the former was used by the Romans earlier than Carrhae but how closely that resembled the classic "testudo" is up for debate. Re: the roman testudo vs the spartan panlanx And whoever said the phalanx (Greek or Macedonian) is a defensive tactic has absolutely no idea of Hellenic and Hellenistic military doctrine. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. As you mentioned Phalanx was the main formation of the Hellenistic armies whereas Testudo was not the main formation of the Roman armies. The first row of men, possibly excluding the men on the flanks, would hold their shields from about the height of their shins to their eyes, so as to cover the formation's front. The phalanx is quite obviously intended for melee combat, whilst the testudo is not. wrong forum for this, I would suggest a redirect or close. Testudo was not the standard fighting formation of the Roman legions. It was not the primary fighting formation of the Roman soldiers. Moved to Chat as it is not faction or game specific. 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